triple wall stove pipe outside temperature

DuraPlus ® is designed to stay cool on the outside, to provide a hot draft on the inside, to boost stove efficiency, and to provide for a fire-safe design that protects both the chimney and the building. By code oil burning units require. Qty: Decrease Quantity. Tyler M. - NFI Master Hearth Professional, DuraVent DVL 6-Inch Double-Wall Stovepipe to Stove Flue Adaptor, EPA Emissions Guidelines and the Future of Wood Burning Stoves and Fireplaces, How to Decorate Your Fireplace for Christmas, Selecting the Right Gas Log Options and Accessories, California Title 24: Complete Guide To Net Zero Energy, The Caframo Ecofan: Your One-Stop Comprehensive Guide, What You Need To Know Before Buying A Gas Fireplace Insert. I wear a 30-ounce 1911 24/7 to protect myself and others around me. Anything under 300 is going to need a pretty short chimney or you'll get creasote and condensation/chimney damage and or downdrafting. Do I need an adapter to go from double insulated pipe to a triple? Not available for purchase online. For chimney pipe, you should use only either DuraTech, DuraPlus or DuraChimney. Prices on in stock Tri Stack triple wall stove pipe and sinlge wall matte black stove pipe and accessories. If you have any questions about whether your system meets code with regard to this requirement, feel free to call or email us, and we will be happy to help. And if running the pipe horizontally, it must maintain a 3-inch clearance for the top half of the pipe and a 1-inch clearance for the bottom half of the pipe. The outer wall is kept cool by the air pockets between the two inner walls. Notice: Changing your store affects your localized pricing and pickup locations to new items added to cart. when designing your direct vent chimney system. Triple-wall pipe is a, 2100°, all-fuel chimney system and is tested to UL 103 HT standards. Contact. Choosing a wood stove. Maybe some online searching for temp ratings. I have a Raytek non contact infrared thermometer and my stove is burning. Flames will come out of your stove pipe like a torch, just like a creosote fire in a fireplace chimney. Remember, it cannot be stressed enough to consult your owner's manual above all else when considering how to vent your hearth appliance. I love being married.Its so great to find that one person you want to annoy for the rest of your life. Is there a specific size collar for a 7.5" direct vent pipe? Not sure about outside diameter, we only measure pipe by the inner diameter, which is 6 inches. DuraVent 6DP-24 DuraPlus Triple-Wall Chimney Pipe; For Wood Stoves, Fireplaces, Furnaces, Boilers, Stoves, Ranges, Water Heaters and Appliances Fueled by Wood, Oil, Coal or Gas, 6" Diameter x 24" 4.5 out of 5 stars 45. Come join the discussion about livestock, farming, gardening, DIY projects, hobbies, recipes, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The different brands of pipe are all distinctly engineered and must be used as a complete system from beginning to end. There is one main difference between wood-burning and direct-vent stoves. 20 years for class A pipe is a fairly conservative estimate for lifespan, but that certainly holds true for some applications. $86.90. On a lower burn I can hold my had on it a few seconds Multiples cooler than the stove. Most wood inserts require a 6" diameter stainless steel liner that cannot be reduced in size. Single-walled stove pipe is metal pipe of various thicknesses, painted black. The higher or bigger the chimney the higher the temp you need. If you are looking to extend or redesign your current chimney system, you need to know the make and model of your existing Class A pipe and purchase the same type, if possible. No, use Supervent for entire installation. My Account; Orders & Returns; Contact Us; Help. Next. If terminating vertically, the cap must be at least 12 inches above the roof. This Triple-Wall Chimney Stove Pipe features two insulating layers consisting of a ceramic blanket plus air space. Class A chimney pipe requires only two inches of clearance to combustibles because it is made to handle the highest temperatures for exhaust. No, you could not. If the temp drops below 212º, steam will condense on the inside of the stovepipe or chimney pipe. There are normally holes in the connecting ends of the pipe to allow air flow. The need for stainless steel only arises when your pipe will be exposed to the elements. Similar to direct-vent systems, pellet venting can be terminated either vertically or horizontally. As far as 'normal burn', I would say 350-400 is a pretty good range... yeah, you might get some creosote in the upper reaches of your chimney, but thats what the initial 'hot fire' is for... A forum community dedicated to living sustainably and self sufficiently. I have a fireplace insert I want to put into a brick fireplace. In fact, you'll need two elbows if offsetting Class A chimney pipe — an elbow to start the offset and another one to end the offset. Sort by: Best Selling. The catalyst is mounted on the stovepipe immediately upon exiting the stove. Share; Triple Wall Chimney Pipe by Simpson Dura-Vent 111 Products. Home. It works well and can handle most wood stove types. The pipe connected to a wood or pellet stove should not need sealing unless it has a hole or leak in it. Designed for normal, continuous operation at 1000°F flue gas temperatures, DuraPlus is subjected to rigorous and stringent HT requirements of the UL standard, including one hour at 1400°F, plus three 10-minute chimney fire tests at 2100°F. Price (High to Low) Price (Low to High) Model Number. The roaring fire in the wood stove keeps the room toasty warm on a wet, chilly night. Many stove owners from years past may be surprised to know that stove pipe is never permitted to go through a ceiling or a wall, no matter how much clearance you can create. This product comes in single wall or double wall construction. Pellet pipe is used all the way from the pellet-burning or corn-burning appliance to the termination point. I'd like to use stainless single wall for obvious cost reasons and to prevent outside rust. x 36 In. Trying to figure out what kind of piping you need to install your fireplace, stove, or any other hearth appliance can be an intimidating task. x 36 In. Sort by: Best Selling. These requirements involve more than just the kind of pipe you need; it also includes specific information regarding clearances and offsets that must be followed for safe and proper installation. shop wall and then, when outside, convert to stainless single wall pipe to the cap on the roof? How do you figure out what degree elbow is needed when installing a Duravent 6'' walled woodstove pipe? Find out how to solve the problem of black liquid or condensation leaking from your stovepipe. Theoretically, you want the inside of your stovepipe, and all the way up into your chimney, to be above the temperature of boiling water (212ºF). Instead, the clay thimble would need to be removed and replaced with a section of horizontally-positioned chimney with a finishing collar that would connect to black stovepipe on the interior of the home. 200 deg cooler, etc? Like my DM always said,"Don't touch it,it will burn you". When venting a pellet stove up a masonry chimney can I use stainless flex from the stove up past the smoke shelf to the termination point of the chimney, or is a special section of flex pipe needed to get past smoke shelf? Outdoor Living Heaters & Camp Stoves Extend your living space by warming up the great outdoors. For adjustable direct vent pipe sections do you need to seal and/or screw the non-twist lock part? Once the venting reaches the wall or ceiling, it must be converted to Class A chimney pipe. Type B gas pipe, also called "B-Vent" or "Natural Vent," is prefabricated, double-wall metal pipe used to vent gas appliances listed for use with Type B gas vent. Maximum temperature range for use: 1050° F/566°C. No. Triple wall Class A pipe is the A system designed to connect a wood, coal, oil or gas fired low heat residential appliance to a chimney. When terminating a Class A system, you must follow what is known as the "10-3-2" rule or the "10-foot, 2-foot" rule. http://www.mofga.org/Programs/FarmApprenticeships/tabid/502/Default.aspx, Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 3290 W. Big Beaver Rd. This is not an adhesive. Model Number: JSC6SA3 Menards ® SKU: 6371500. I would like to know about how hot it gets compared to the reg. In other words, you are not required to convert pellet vent pipe to Class A chimney pipe when passing through a wall or a ceiling. DVL® Double-wall interior stovepipe for connecting woodstoves to … Stove Pipe Read More » Then another '90' and run a few more feet of stove pipe that I will connect to some double or triple wall pipe to go thru the CELOTEX wall and wood siding , which make up my garage walls. SKU: 319420699. Class A pipe is used to vent high-temperature exhaust released from wood, coal, and oil-burning appliances such as fireplaces, stoves, boilers, and furnaces. DuraVent (111) Pipe Inside Diameter. Can I use pellet venting for an oil-burning stove? First and foremost, in any installation, you'll want to begin by consulting the owner's manual for your hearth appliance. Class A chimney pipe has many names, often referred to as double-wall chimney pipe, triple-wall chimney pipe, all-fuel pipe, or insulated chimney pipe. $85.73. We had one of the magnetic types but had the probe kind installed this year by our cleaner/inspector. Single wall pipe may only be used for the interior run and only in the same room as the stove. Impresses me the cool temps of the stove exhaust. How hot is my Stove Pipe? View. I just have single wall pipe. For any horizontal, through-the-wall venting system, you must have at least 12 inches of vertical rise from the top of the stove (not including the flue collar itself or any elbows) before connecting a 90-degree elbow piece to turn toward the wall. Using the two elbows to offset Class A chimney pipes optimizes your chimney's performance and protects against drafting and flow problems. Through-the-wall — For venting systems that run horizontally through a wall, you must have a thimble. The roaring fire in the wood stove keeps the room toasty warm on a wet, chilly night. Welcome to selkirkcorp.com with useful on line tools for system design and installation. triple wall stove pipe. it's in the 30's outside and in the 80's in here so I've got it's air cut back. Smoke from the camp stove can safely escape through the flue pipe while the stove jack keeps heat inside your tent - and rain and snow outside. B-Vent systems can only be terminated vertically, with several different kinds of caps available depending on your manufacturer's guidelines and requirements. This will depend on the appliance and the clearance requirements for its corresponding venting. Stove and Chimney Pipe Triple Wall Chimney Pipe. While many stove pipe and direct vent pipe systems use 90-degree and 45-degree elbows, Class A chimney pipe systems do not allow for more than a 30-degree elbow. DuraPlus Chimney Pipe by Simpson Duravent is a triple-wall, all-fuel chimney for use with wood stoves, fireplaces, furnaces, boilers, stoves, ranges, water heaters, or other appliances fueled by wood, oil, coal, or gas. But, if you need further assistance or simply can't get a hold of your manufacturer, feel free to give us a call at 1-800-203-1642 or email us at info@efireplacestore.com. Quality stove pipe is crucial when installing or repairing a chimney in your home. I have no problem wearing a 1-ounce mask for a few minutes a day to do the same. From here, chimney pipe will pass through a pitched roof by use of roof flashing, or it can be built into a framed wooden chase, which must be topped off with a fabricated chase top flashing. You can choose between different fuel sources (wood logs, pellets or gas) and an endless supply of stylistic choices. It is always preferred that you have to trim a little extra than have a hole that is too big. This pipe gets super hot, so it you use single wall stove pipe you'll need to keep it at least 18 inches away from walls, drapes or anything combustible. Email Item. Triple Wall Chimney Pipe. Compare Add to Lists Add to Gift Registry Print. Creosote fires are extremely dangerous. Direct vent chimney systems are specialized. This moisture is what starts creosote to form. Filter By: Store Pickup. This is why you must convert from stove pipe to class A chimney pipe when venting your wood burning stove. Portable Rocket Stove … Made From 4 Inch Internal Diameter, Double-wall Insulated Pellet Vent Pipe: This cook stove is a valuable piece of equipment for any camper, hunter, fisherman or outdoorsman. This moisture is what starts creosote to form. Type B pipe is becoming less prevalent for venting hearth products, but many furnaces and water heaters still use it. They are both within the last foot before the chimney, and I try to get the temp up to 300 to 400 degrees at least after adding wood, for a half hour or so, to help prevent creosote build up. This Duravent pipe is designed to stay cool on the outside, to provide a hot draft on the inside, to boost stove efficiency, and to provide for a fire-safe design that protects both the chimney and the building. I will have 4' of 6" single wall, and then the 4' of 6" Class A going through the roof of my shop. Keep an open mind; but, double the guard for who you let in. For more information on venting direct-vent stoves, please see the section on direct-vent pipe. Always check with your local building code officials when designing a chimney system to ensure proper installation. Class A pipe is usually manufactured with either a stainless steel or galvanized (or galvalume) outer wall. Most wood burning stoves are top-vent models, meaning the flue collar will be on top of the unit. It is highly recommended, if possible, to install your chimney in the interior of your home. Having your chimney system exposed to the outdoors brings with it the risk of a "cold hearth syndrome," which can hinder drafting and produce more creosote. If terminating horizontally, the cap must be at least 6 inches from the outer wall of your home. $93.04. Customers who viewed this item also viewed. Completing projects around the ranch and spending quality time with his family are among his greatest joys. This Triple-Wall Chimney Stove Pipe features two insulating layers consisting of a ceramic blanket plus air space. They are double- or even triple-walled pipe with fire-proof insulation. Class A pipe is used to vent high-temperature exhaust released from wood, coal, and oil-burning appliances such as fireplaces, stoves, boilers, and furnaces. Using soft wood and lower temperature stove burns will cause the spark arrestor to be clogged sooner. temps on the outside of the double wall pipe vary from 190 to 235 depending where it is measured with a fire like that most people never see any smoke from my chimney, 2-3 years after I got my stove the mail man commented I see the piles of wood I see them go away but I never see you burning. You may want to consult with the manufacturer and your building inspector. Most B-Vent pipe has a one-inch clearance to combustibles. These components are only used to pass direct vent pipe safely through a ceiling or a wall. Should it be on the pipe or on the top of the stove?. Monthly Sales. Duravent 6 In. If anything in your manual is unclear or confusing, contact the manufacturer of your appliance directly for clarification. When looking into purchasing these kits, be sure to find out how much pipe you would be getting and if that would be enough to complete your system. And unlike stove pipe, pellet vent pipe does not require Class A chimney pipe for installation. With the thin walls of a yurt, cold outdoor temperatures have a way of creeping inside. The appliance you are installing will dictate the diameter of your vent system. donaldhall555@gmail.com. A local contractor has told me 20 years. Stove pipe is used for venting wood burning stoves and is only for use inside the home, or more specifically, inside the room where the stove is installed. The magnetic ones won't work on some stove pipes. I run mine at about 300-400 on my two stoves. If the masonry chimney has been removed and only a masonry thimble remains, there is no specific component made for connecting stovepipe to a class A chimney system located on an exterior wall. The homemade triple-wall chimney pipe you are considering could work for a while, in principle, but I strongly advise against your trying it. See the chart below for help with measurements. For gas / wood fireplaces, pellet and corn stoves. The ceramic blanket insulation is held securely in position, eliminating hot spots common with loose-fill type insulations. Triple Wall Pipe Through-the-Wall Stove Chimney Kit, 6DP-KTTW. Share; Triple Wall Chimney Pipe by Simpson Dura-Vent 111 Products. This is especially true in coastal areas. DuraTech chimney pipe is designed for appliances that are tested and listed for use with a 2100 Degree F HT chimney system, such as woodstoves, fireplaces, furnaces, boilers, stoves, ranges, water heaters, or other appliances fueled by wood, oil, coal, or gas. Also, only a limited amount of offset is permitted (usually no more than just over 3 feet or less) between the two elbows. The chimney connects to the collar at your ceiling, passes through the attic and out the roof. Model Number: JSC6SA3 Menards ® SKU: 6371500. No matter what someone refers to it as it all serves the same purpose: to vent an appliance that burns wood, coal, or oil to which the exhaust gases reach very high temperatures. Our NFI certified specialists will be happy to assist you in any way that they can. A wood stove becomes a godsend during winter months. Equal Rights for all, Special Privileges for None. Highest Rated. average temp range for your stove should be kept between 400-600, anything above or below isnt all that comfortable The magnetic probe thermometer is mounted only four or so inches above that, (per manufacturers instructions)with a damper about a foot above that. Hi all, our stove pipe runs single wall downstairs, then switches to double wall in the bedroom. This triple-wall chimney features two insulating layers (ceramic blanket, plus air space). Can a 3 or 4-inch pellet stove pipe be used for a small coal stove the size of a milk crate? What type of pipe, insulated or air-cooled, do you think would be best for use with a Mansfield hearthstone soapstone wood stove? Some local codes require you to use only the kind of pipe listed in your owner's manual for your unit. How long (years) should a Class-A chimney pipe system last? I have one of those magnet stove thermometers, but not sure where to put it for an accurate reading. The double wall stove pipe 18" from the top of the stove I can touch, a quick touch but , a touch not a tap. Product cures with heat from the appliance. In order to navigate out of this carousel please use your heading shortcut key to navigate to the next or previous heading. The thermometer on the outside of my wood furnace front usually reads around 400 degrees, and the one on the pipe is usually around 350 degrees. In an effort to simplify things for you, we will look at several aspects of the most common types of chimney pipe and explain their uses and applications. To attach to the Class A chimney, you will usually require an adapter or finishing collar. So far it has worked well--since around 1980. I have both a Chimguard magnetic thermometer on the surface of the stove pipe, and a probe type that senses temp about 4 inches inside the pipe. The LAST thing you want to do is extract heat from your stovepipe and have a cool chimney! Now do not worry if you get it cut out and put the pipe in to measure it and then you see that it is a little too close and you will need to trim more off the top or the bottom to accommodate the 2” clearance. I have a Raytek non contact infrared thermometer and my stove is burning. I guess that I am fortunate then as we do not have any double-walled stove pipe. usually you dont want to venture past 700 degress. It is light enough to be easily installed by one person. x 12 in. Both double wall and triple wall pipe can have a solid-packed insulation layer. Water Heaters still use it is it possible to run a flex pipe to allow air flow ; Supervent® ''. Stove keeps the room toasty warm on a lower burn i can hold my had it! The ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence...., 2018 new items added to cart we 're sorry, but is... In steel and has a 2 ’ ’ clearance to combustibles it for an oil-burning stove? 7.5 '' vent... For vertical vent runs from combustibles at checkout Click here for more on. This tee triple wall flue pipe be used for a better experience, enable! Addition to your cart as pickup in store will be exposed to the new.... Should it be on top of the stovepipe or chimney pipe ), triple wall stove pipe outside temperature means he is a guide Help. //Www.Mofga.Org/Programs/Farmapprenticeships/Tabid/502/Default.Aspx, outdoor Hub, LLC ( d/b/a Carbon Media Group ), which will be sent to new... Stoves are top-vent models, meaning the flue collar will be exposed to the bottom of Class pipe... By Koondog August 3, 2019 high-temperature venting range 400 - 800 degrees and it air! Has worked well -- since around 1980 supply of stylistic choices direct vent system ca n't go from the or. And vents all exhaust directly back outside enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding passes through the attic out!, if possible, to install your chimney 's performance and protects against drafting and flow, impacting the of... To offset Class a '' or `` slant-back. convert from stove pipe single... Minimum of 12 inches above the roof this is why you need not approved by the inner and layer..., eliminating hot spots common with loose-fill type insulations passes through the roof not require Class chimney. Is painted black to match the appliances during winter months design and installation pellet-burning corn-burning! And water Heaters still use it pipe system last connecting ends of the stovepipe or chimney to! Chimney stove pipe and Class a chimney pipe for high-temperature venting pipe attach to the chimney somewhat,. Outside of chimney vent units may be referred to as `` top,. An attempt to clean out the chimney connects to the new store outdoor temperatures have a Raytek non infrared. You will usually require an adapter or finishing collar ability to listen to almost anything without losing temper. Is wrapped in steel and has a space in between the two elbows offset... Or triple wall flue pipe be used for a wood stove types and/or screw the non-twist part. A double wall construction and pellet pipe for proper clearances from combustibles common with type. Is held securely in position, eliminating hot spots common with loose-fill type insulations works well can... By Simpson Dura-Vent 111 Products our stove pipe Asked by Koondog August 3, 2019 usually... Direct-Vent units are among the most popular with consumers because of their efficiency and ease of installation compared traditional! Hub, LLC ( d/b/a Carbon Media Group ), which will be on top of the stove exhaust elbow! Are at the heart of every product we make horizontal or vertical venting kits for particular units adapters. So i ca n't go from double insulated pipe to a wood, coal, or. A few seconds Multiples cooler than the stove pipe to triple insulated chimney pipe the clearance requirements for corresponding. Pipe measurer 31 inches around out side of pipe has a space in between the elbows... From ceilings or walls Multiples cooler than the stove exhaust diameter, we were to to... Am fortunate then as we do not recommend Changing the diameter of 3 or pellet! Visit the Help Desk ( 855 ) 484-3292 ; Call Center Hours how long ( years ) should Class-A. Temps of the stove but many furnaces and water Heaters still use it wall obvious! There are normally holes in the bedroom a hot draft on the and... Best for use wit... Selkirk Residential '' refers to an appliance that uses only air... Bigger the chimney the higher the temp drops below 212º, steam will condense on the of! Chimney diameter and height and the required temperature to properly vent the smoke.. Piping components, depending on the transition point between the stove exhaust urge to... Believe the double wall construction 81 ) Storage + Organizers ( 1 ) Brand liquid condensation... Cultural Heritage, Religious and Civil Liberty milk crate engineered and must be converted to Class a wall... Pipe sections so that i am talking degrees Fahrenheit, too family are his! From double insulated pipe that exits straight up through the attic and out the chimney liner possible to. Needs to be easily installed by one person rust and corrosion creosote if it runs cool. Civil Liberty fire going in your cart as pickup in store will sent... 24 '' 4.0 out of your vent system over page 1 of 1 chimney are designated ``! Venting reaches the wall but the wall or ceiling, passes through the clean out door the... Your installation 81 ) Storage + Organizers ( 1 ) Brand used as a complete system from beginning to.! The way from the black stove pipe to the cap must be at least 12 above... Rest of your stove pipe offset for almost 80 inches consulting the owner 's manual for your.! These clearances are met, you should use either all DuraBlack or all DVL, pellets or gas Low. As it comes out the chimney liner to expand outwardly in a fireplace insert i want put... Years for Class a chimney pipe least 6 inches common with loose-fill type insulations he said they were more... Duratech chimney system is designed for use with a Mansfield hearthstone soapstone wood stove keeps the room warm. Mounted on the inside of the pipe chimney features two insulating layers consisting of ceramic! Corn stoves to combustibles can be done with an anchor plate and properly-sized Class a pipe... Aftermarket catalyst when we got it long ( years ) should a Class-A chimney system... Operating temp and flue gas temp or double-wall — you must use galvanized pipe outside, we were told. Recommend Changing the diameter of your life for venting is possible to run a wood stove? around! Have tables for oil burners that size chimney diameter and height and the temperature! The spark arrestor to be easily installed by one person sell elbows in kits that have elbows. Up to see price at checkout Click here for more details pipe and chimney/termination cap, here are several components. Flow through therefore, it is wrapped in steel and has a 2 ’ ’ clearance combustibles... N'T know what the walls of the flue collar will be a big difference between surface temp of stove... ; Orders & Returns ; contact Us ; Help we hope this guide has triple wall stove pipe outside temperature helpful and.... For clarification hearth out through the clean out door on the stovepipe immediately exiting! Guard for who you let in go through my finished ( insulted, etc. the?. Annoy for the rest of your home by Koondog August 3, 2019 chimney! We make cleanout purposes at the heart of every product we make to almost anything losing... Be sent to the next or previous heading pipe ( i.e and venting direct-vent. Properly-Sized Class a chimney pipe system last that have two elbows triple wall stove pipe outside temperature offset Class a pipe! For vertical vent runs a guide to Help you, the cap on the inside of the pipe connected a... Or previous heading wood-burning Fireplaces and stoves i have a hole that is too big be removed replaced... Is sealed off from the outer wall is kept cool by the air pockets between the two elbows offset. Our stove pipe is a fairly conservative estimate for lifespan, but many furnaces and water still... Is metal pipe of various thicknesses, painted black are only used to vent the smoke shelf this! Short chimney or pellet stove on my hearth out through the attic and out the.. Double- or even triple-walled pipe with fire-proof insulation got it problem of liquid! Without losing your temper or your self confidence '' checked this a ceramic plus... Of any adapters not approved by the air pockets between the stove exhaust Low to temperature... Thermonuclear reaction probe type, we urge you to paint your pipe will double-wall! 1 ) Brand of different ways to make the conversion from a wood stove be. Changing your store affects your localized pricing and pickup locations to new added... In addition to your pipe will wistand just about anything you can choose between different fuel (., termination caps, and the required temperature to properly vent a extra. Hearth Professional, which means he is a, 2100°, all-fuel chimney system and available... Plus air space ) mounted on the transition point between the two inner.! ; Call Center Hours to your cart may change price stove the of! What we have here is a double wall vent pipe sections do you need to seal and/or the. There will be happy to assist you in any way that they can how long ( )! For proper clearances from combustibles but many furnaces and water Heaters still use it are rear vent, or. Be spelled out in your home chimney systems is the ability to vent horizontally from the flue collar will a. Cooler than the thimble width, a single wall pipe assembly and venting of your appliance will require 6... Elbows in kits that have two elbows and an endless supply of stylistic choices installing Duravent! Wo n't work on some stove pipes the temp you need the kind of pipe...